Another depressingly moronic insight, Cofty. Sometimes I wish you would actually have something substanative to say rather than ejaculating whatever first enters your head. This all we ever get from you. At least QCMBR makes intelligent posts, though I don't agree with many of them. And BTW, we have plenty of British saints, as well as Spanish, German and even French saints. So please do so evermuch excuse me for not recognizing you as spokesman for the British people. Toodles.
Cold Steel
JoinedPosts by Cold Steel
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56
A Mormon becomes a JW in the Feb 2013 Watchtower...
by cedars inglancing through the feb 2013 "public" watchtower edition, an interesting article appears on page 8.. here is the pdf download link.... http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=20130201&output=html&pub=wp&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.
it's interesting how, in the story, the young man's jw aunt and uncle switch him from mormonism to the jw faith using third-party material (the nov 8, 1995 awake!
article), and he ends up becoming a jw after confirming on the official mormon website that the claims in the awake!
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Does the GB claim the sole power of scriptural interpretation?
by DATA-DOG inwhat are the best quotes, old and new about this mystical power?
i just had a " come to jesus " talk with my wife.
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Cold Steel
DCMShirly: See, the LDS and WT have more in common than you think, Cold Steel...practically twins.
Ummm...in what way? I wish someone would list these commonalities.
The LDS faith resembles more the first century Christian church than it does the WTBTS. Doctrinally and socially we're entirely different. Or do you throw all religionists in the same basket?
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Does the GB claim the sole power of scriptural interpretation?
by DATA-DOG inwhat are the best quotes, old and new about this mystical power?
i just had a " come to jesus " talk with my wife.
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Cold Steel
Anciently, those who were called of God experienced theophanies, or direct visitations of Deity, and/or of angels. Many were called in their youths, but whatever one experienced, there was never any doubt on the parts of those who were called that they had been called. They also had to speak for God, receiving actual revelation from Him. One of the duties of angels is to educate prophets in the ways of God, often by showing extended visions or delivering messages from God.
But Charles T. Russell never claimed that he saw or spoke to God, nor was he called in any way that ancient apostles or prophets were called. He and later leaders tried their hands at prophecy, based more on mathematics, graphs and charts. He also repeatedly failed, as did his successors. It's one of the things that most fascinate me about the religion. There's no apostolic authority, no revelation, no angels -- it not only claims not to be a church, it specifically forbids its membership from joining a church. But didn't Jesus say, "Upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of death shall not prevail against it."??
If the Society claims the church is not upon the earth, why does it baptize? Why does it claim to be God's "spirit filled" organization? And if it isn't a church, what is it? It has a hierarchical quorum, just like a church. It has congregations like a church and its leaders give those congregations counsel and instruction like a church. And they discipline their members as one would expect a church to do. So the Society's position in these things are a bit confounding to me. If it's received apostolic authority to baptize and to represent God, where did they get it? What would prevent any one member from excommunicating everyone else (including the Governing Body) and taking charge?
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A Mormon becomes a JW in the Feb 2013 Watchtower...
by cedars inglancing through the feb 2013 "public" watchtower edition, an interesting article appears on page 8.. here is the pdf download link.... http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=20130201&output=html&pub=wp&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.
it's interesting how, in the story, the young man's jw aunt and uncle switch him from mormonism to the jw faith using third-party material (the nov 8, 1995 awake!
article), and he ends up becoming a jw after confirming on the official mormon website that the claims in the awake!
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Cold Steel
LisaRose: If you want to believe Joseph Smith found golden tablets and spoke to a salamander, well, I guess that's your choice, I really don't care.
Well, no one I know believes that anyone talks with salamanders. You are behind the times, LR. The whole "salamander" thing was a hoax perpetrated by Mark Hofmann in the early 80s. Most likely the most talented forger in history, he obviously drew on scandalous anti-Mormon literature from the early to mid-1800s. The text itself caused many to doubt its legitimacy; however, many others could not prove it was not legitimate. It took a trained investigator months to note that the ink, under a microscope, was cracked. But in known documents of the day, the ink showed no such irregularities.
To slur a religion you know little to nothing about does nothing for your credibility. If you don't, as you say, care, why post at all?
Qcmbr:The lds church is being decimated in the uk....
So is every Christian religion. As stated by LDS apologist Dr. Daniel Peterson:
European Secularism
A more interesting form of secular anti-Mormonism springs out of, or at least is related to, elite European secularism generally.
Some years ago, with time on my hands following the close of an academic gathering in Graz, Austria, I spent the better part of a day looking through the city’s bookstores. The dollar being weak, prices being high, and my luggage being cramped, I did much more looking and browsing than buying. I soon discovered an extraordinarily interesting topic: The treatment of Mormonism in travel books published for America-bound Europeans. Since then, I’ve enjoyed many similar books in French and Italian bookstores as well as across Germanic Europe. Almost uniformly, the tone is one of astonishment–subtly expressed or, often, quite open–at the stupidity and gullibility of the Latter-day Saints. Additionally, Mormon history and doctrine are plainly deemed too patently absurd to justify much effort at accuracy.
But Mormons represent merely an opportunity for a more general European attitude to focus on a particularly ludicrous target. In a recent book attempting to explain the American mind to bemused German-speakers, Professor Hans-Dieter Gelfert observes that, “To Europeans, American religiosity must necessarily seem naive, if not primitive. Here [in Germany], educated people are assisted, above all, by enlightened theologians who reinterpret Christian teaching as an ethical doctrine suited for the everyday, but at the same time philosophically abstract. In the meanwhile, there are pastors who believe that they can get by altogether without mentioning God’s name. It’s completely different in America, where the Bible is still the Word of God.”
According to Phil Zuckerman, of Pitzer College, rates of agnosticism or atheism in Scandinavia, the Czech Republic, and France reach levels higher than fifty percent. There and elsewhere, underused churches are being converted into concert halls, museums, art galleries, stores, restaurants, condos, even nightclubs. In Scandinavia, for some reason, it is popular to transform churches into carpet stores. It is well known that the late Pope John Paul II believed that the future of Catholicism lay not in spiritually dying Europe, but to the south, in Latin America and, perhaps even more so, in Africa. Benedict XVI appears to share that view, with reason.
“In the eyes of many if not most Europeans,” Professor Gelfert observes, “American taste is equivalent to tastelessness.”7 (One is tempted to suggest that, given their own still relatively recent history of something rather worse than poor taste, a bit of humility might be in order for the Germans, at least. And I say this as something of a Germanophile.) Thus, European disdain for American religiosity functions as part of a broader contempt for American culture, nicely embodied, as a surprisingly large number of residents of both the Continent and the British Isles see it, in our religious fanatic cowboy president. And what could be more American than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, widely known for its freshly-scrubbed, naive, nineteen-year-old missionaries, hailing mostly from the American West?
Anti-Mormonism in Europe is overwhelmingly of the secular variety; evangelical anti-Mormonism, on the whole, is no more than a minor irritant because the same general European secularism that directly challenges missionary success on the continent and in the British Isles also confronts and hampers our evangelical friends. But secularist anti-Mormonism is doing real damage to many fragile testimonies there, and an adequate response has still not materialized. This is a challenge that apologists in Europe itself but also in the Church’s American home base urgently need to address.
You can watch his comments in total at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSwccNZ_mmo&feature=player_detailpage
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What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine
by D_Rolling_Kearney ini am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.
i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.
" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.
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Cold Steel
Do the mormons also teach misinformation about other groups?
Absolutely not.
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What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine
by D_Rolling_Kearney ini am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.
i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.
" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.
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Cold Steel
Based on my own personal research, Mormons have a significantly higher proportion of hot-looking elders than do JWs. There are 28 such good-looking Mormon elders to 0.5 JW elders. By this result, good-looking JW elders are infuriatingly rare. This is not a trivial fact but one that lovers of fine-looking men will appreciate.
Umm...I don't think we're your type, Steve. But you happen to be right. I'm rockin' hot at 60! No gray hair. Just a bit of nose and ear hair, which I keep fashionably trimmed.
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What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine
by D_Rolling_Kearney ini am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.
i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.
" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.
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Cold Steel
If Mormons would allow alcohol and caffeine, they would be the better cult to choose from (just sayin')
We're having a special next week. Join and you can have all the alcohol and caffeine you want.
LisaRose: That's rich, Cold Steel commenting about the Jehovah's Witnesses not having the gift of prophecy, Pot, meet kettle. Besides, the JWs actually do not claim to have the gift of prophecy, although they are so dogmatic about their predictions and ever changing interpretation of scripture, they might as well claim they do.
And what's so "rich" about it? We claim both prophecy and revelation, just as in the ancient church. It seems that if a religion is going to claim any sort of legitimacy, it must have these gifts. The Jehovah's Witnesses just assumed to be God's represented Kingdom on Earth. But how does that work? How do they know God chose them in 1919 (or whenever)? Or that Jesus returned "invisibly"?
Cold steel, you are allowed to post even though you were never a JW, and are usually promoting Mormonism. I don't know if I would be that generous if it were my board.
I only promote Mormonism when someone denegrates it. I have never posted even one topic on Mormonism. If othe people don't bring it up, I never mention it. Also, Mormonism has almost nothing in common with the JWs...I fail to see why people keep trying to link it. Are we a "cult"? Yes. Was early Christianity a cult? Absolutely! In fact, we have much more in common with first century Christianity than any other church I'm aware of.
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What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine
by D_Rolling_Kearney ini am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.
i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.
" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.
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Cold Steel
As many posters know, I’m also a member of the LDS Church. And I’ve been here for years, having first visited this site when part of my extended family joined the Society (it’s NOT a church, yet it baptizes people into the name of the Father and the Son and to the Spirit-led organization representing Jehovah on Earth) and, getting back to my family, pretty much cut us off at the knees.
For one thing, Rolling, the Society would NEVER, ever, sponsor a forum for member exchange. This is what’s called a “recovery board.” And many of its members have gone from true believers to doubters, and then, unfortunately, to atheism and the spite and disillusionment that comes with it. After having thought they first knew all the answers as Jehovah’s Witnesses, they now, as unbelievers, again think they have all the answers.
The history of the organization — the “outfit,” as the Chicago mob were called — is magnificently lacking in any spiritual gifts such as prophecy; not that they haven’t tried to prophesy. It just hasn’t worked out. They call other religions “manmade” and reject much of first century Christianity and eschatology, basing themselves in a foundation of Replacement Theology. They view themselves as the inheritors of the blessings given to Jacob and God no longer cares about Judah and Israel. Also, there are no angels, no direct communication with Deity, no witnesses of their divine calling. And though it’s not a church, it will disfellowship (excommunicate) anyone who joins one. If you even go to one for a wedding or a visit, you’re toast; and if you’re caught in one during “Armageddon” (the Society’s view of the end of the Age), you’ll be slaughtered with the others who happen to be there with you. It’s viewed as false religion, Babylon the Great.
Bottom line, you won’t change any minds. But you will learn a lot about the Society and its structure. And there are plenty of nice people here who have not lost faith in Christianity; however, tread lightly. The atheists think they’re the only ones here.
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When a JW's life comes close to its end...
by suavojr intalking with a long time elder last night, was very revealing.
he has been a jw for over 60 years, a man that was incarcerated in cuba in his early 20s and faced great loss and suffering over his beliefs and for being born in a communist country.
this brave man is now brittle and low-spirited.. while nightfalls on his life, he is made aware the end is near.
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Cold Steel
I have no proof of anything, just a belief. In the near death experiences I've read, people talk about these spirits wandering the earth. Some of them trouble the living as "ghosts" and abide among the spirits of Satan, seeking to lead the living astray. Eventually, these spirits do move on; however, the spirits of those who followed Satan are trapped here until the return of Christ. They will then be bound until the end of the Millennium. Some of those who have had near death experiences have tried to communicate with these spirits, but they almost unanimously report that these attempts are futile. Howard Storm (a former atheist), Elane Durham, George Ritchie and others all report seeing these spirits and feeling the suffering and hopelessness they experience.
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A Good Question To Ask JW to Get Them To Think
by sarahsmile inwhy did you get baptized?.
what do you think they would reply?.
because it is the truth!
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Cold Steel
Baptism is the gate through which one dedicates his or her life to Jesus. Going under the water represents the death and burial of Christ and coming forth from the water represents Jesus coming forth from the tomb into a newness of life. Afterwards, this covenant is renewed through the partaking of the bread and wine. Both, if done with a sincere heart, result in the forgiveness of sins.